The White Rabbit wrote:

gardenstart, from my understanding the FDA is a USA government organisation. They are not international. In australia we have a similar group called food standards australia (we also have another called the therapeutic goods administration that takes care of pharmaceuticals....as you can see different countries set up their regulating bodies differently). The FDA just like food standards australia will have documents and legislation that covers food safety. Both as I gather will take from the Codex because the codex is a nice little (or big) collection of worlds best practise in all things food. But they'll only take what they want out of it. Like all similar international standards and recommendations, each country will decide which bits they want and which they don't and then they'll make up their documents and legislation. So if you have a problem with what the FDA is doing then it's an internal USA thing not an international thing.

I have to agree with this. 

I don't even think that the Codex is beyond making mistakes or getting things wrong.  We all, both individually and in collective and corporate bodies, are able to make mistakes and get things wrong.  There are also occasional rogues in organizations, corporate or government; and there are some people who will be overswayed or over-persuaded by lobbying from big business. 

But I do not believe there is a great conspiracy to control all our food and how we or others may grow and provide it.  Indeed, I do not believe there really could ever be such a conspiracy, given all the different national as well as international governments and agencies, not to mention companies and individuals, involved in world food supply. 

The Codex may have influence, and I think it probably should; and there is no fundamental problem with a government harmonizing its policies with the conclusions of a specialist organization that collects and develops its information, and forms its guidance, appropriately.  But Codex does not have control or legislative power in any one country, nor over the whole world.

So yes, we should focus on who is making the legislation in our own country, and deal with that if we have to.  Getting confused over responsibility and conspiracy, and making confusing arguments about it all based on mixed-up evidence and poor-quality citations (or no citations at all), is not going to convince anybody, and is only going to turn people off any campaign one wishes to start, rather than get them to join it.

Gardenstart, I believe your analogy with 'fascism' is offensive and inappropriate.  It is also not accurate.  Fascism historically was a highly intolerant, racist, destructive and violent movement, in its philosophies and its practices.  It achieved popularity through demagogy rather than rationality or science.  It was, moreover, politically, an extreme right-wing movement, whereas in Australia and America at least, and in other countries, we currently have democratically elected left-wing federal governments and leaders, while some have centre or centre-right government.  The word fascism should not be bandied about like this, simply to try to score some kind of rhetorical point.

Here is what the Codex site says about the 'rumour' that Codex (and world food supply) is controlled by war criminals or ex-Nazis:

'R2: Is it true that Codex was created by a former war criminal to control the world food supply?

'No. It is a false claim. You just need to type the words "Codex Alimentarius" in any search engine and you will find lots lots of these rumours about Codex. Usually the people spreading them will give no proof but will ask you to send donations or to sign petitions against Codex.

'Truthful information about Codex is found on Internet (www.codexalimentarius.net) - there is nothing to hide from our side - we are a public institution working in public for the public - we are happy if people want to know more about our work and ask questions. There is an official Codex Contact Point in each member country (www.codexalimentarius.net/web/members.jsp) who will be pleased to answer your questions on Codex'.

At 'FAQs - Rumours', Codex Alimentarius.  Retrieved 24 Nov. 2010 from:
http://www.codexalimentarius.net/web/faq_rum.jsp#R2

Last edited by cengland (Wed 24 Nov 10 12:09am)

I've reformed my ways, gonna stay out of politics, as it's not a very good thing to participate in these days.  Back to the garden!

SonomaEddie wrote:

I think someone has a few loose seeds rattling around in their head.

It might be a hard law, unless the Canadians had some way to check the plants. 

Gardeners have been saving seeds since someone figured out how to garden.  There will be seed-savers, especially if the plant in question is an heirloom-variety.

SonomaEddie wrote:

Heard about an international seed saving group that is collecting seeds from old varieties to keep them going.  Sounds so good to me.   

But I can't believe this thread was exhumed!  How long before the zombies return    

I didn't do it.      I didn't even know this was an old thread.

Seed saving is illegal. I live in Vermont. February 1st, H.R. 13, declaring the inalienable right of all Vermonters to save and grow seeds, passed through the House of Representative, with a unanimous voice vote. Ofcourse, if you seed save at your house and plant those seeds in your yard, no one will knows about it. The law is mainly enforced amongst farmers, thanks to multinational corporations like Monsanto, forcing farmers to buy seeds every year, verses seed saving and using those to plant crops.

Below is a link for the Vermont State Legislature's site. On the far left hand side, go to "Legislative Research" and click "Read the Bill". Where is says "bill number", type in "HR13". Then click "As Introduced", under where it says in caps, "H.R. 13 HOUSE RESOLUTION DECLARING THE INALIENABLE RIGHT OF ALL VERMONTERS TO SAVE AND GROW SEEDS". Read the bill yourself. As unreal as it may sound, seed saving is illegal. Many things are illegal, but people still continue to do them. When your a farmer, you have the government up your you know what all the time, so its hard to get away with anything.