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#11 Mon 15 Feb 10 4:16am

dmfootycoach

Member
From Ontario, Canada
Member since Mon 11 Jan 10

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

While I understand the point she was trying to make her methodology was NUTS! She made the prime mistake of allowing the kids to get attached to the critters by allowing it to be named and treated as a pet and once she realized (if she realized this happened) the experiment should have changed slightly. As far as threats towards her thats crazy too.
But it does go to prove that we've lost touch as to where our food comes from. I know they did a study some 10 years ago here in Ontario asking 200 10-14 years olds where steak came from 30% said the grocery store. 45% said a farm and only 25% said a cow.
Harvesting or slaughtering an animal is never easy. I still have difficulty with it each and everytime and I've been doing it for years. But I was initially raised in the city my 9 year old daughter has no issues with helping me butcher a deer but she knows no different. My wife who spent her whole life in the urban jungle is another matter altogether.

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#12 Mon 15 Feb 10 8:44am

abdullahcohn

Forum champ
Occupation Occupied
From My House
Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

Mr P
Primary is 3-11
secondary is 11-16
6th form/college is 16-18 but can be longer if they mess up, or return after a gap.
Then there is university.
People don't have to continue education after 16.

Whitedog
You mentioned that what happed can result in a lot of vegetarians.
And what is wrong with that?
I am a meat eater, but as people here know, I've killed my own.
I can understand that not everyone is able to do that these days.
But people should be made to understand as early as possible that the meat they eat was an animal, a living being. with parents and may be friends.
And for us to be able to eat it, it had to die.
So I think what was done at that school should be done at every school.
And if your school doesn't do it, you should take your children to a slaughter.
It may result in them becoming vegetarian, but if it doesn;t they will respect the meat on their plate.

Last edited by abdullahcohn (Mon 15 Feb 10 8:45am)

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#13 Mon 15 Feb 10 8:48am

abdullahcohn

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Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

I think the only way for children to realise that animals are living things is to get attached to them.

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#14 Mon 15 Feb 10 8:49am

abdullahcohn

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Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

The reason why people eat so much meat now, is because they are so deteached from the animals the meat used to be.

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#15 Mon 15 Feb 10 8:49am

abdullahcohn

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Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

So people are turning their stomachs in to the grave yards of animals.

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#16 Mon 15 Feb 10 2:02pm

Anna

Forum champ
From Switzerland
Member since Fri 15 Apr 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

I agree, it's absolutely laughable.  We kept chicks at school, and they disappeared periodically - we knew exactly where they were going and that they wouldn't be coming back.  And yes, they were cute, fluffy, and we named them.  My old stables bred foals specifically for the slaughter, and oh my, they were cute, they were fussed over, and they were named.  But we realized what their purpose was, and dealt with it.  Children are much less fragile than these squeamish adults seem to fear.

Bearing in mind, this research was published a few weeks ago:

The survey of 1,000 school pupils, aged between 6 and 8, discovered that fewer than one in four knew that beef burgers originally came from cows (the beef part at least), with almost a quarter convinced that they came from pigs. Others thought that bacon came from horses. Some children actually thought that rabbits, plastic or sheep were the main ingredients of crisps.
---
Among the findings some youngsters thought that beef burgers came from McDonalds or Burger King, eggs from sheep, that yoghurts were made using turkeys or ducks, ham came from the Co-Op, bacon from horses, goats or peacocks and cheese originated from butterflies, rats or mice.

(SchoolGate/Times Online, and all the figures at http://www.digdownsw.co.uk/static/archives/550)

The headmistress was specially brought in to turn around a failing school.  She has an excellent track record from what I have read, and she's now been forced to resign.  For shame.  I do wonder just how many of the irate parents are committed vegetarians.

Last edited by Anna (Mon 15 Feb 10 2:09pm)

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#17 Mon 15 Feb 10 6:43pm

abdullahcohn

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Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

She was a good head teacher because she was willing to do what it takes to teach children what they need to learn.
She gave the children what they wanted. It was the children who wanted the lamb slaughtered.
What is the point of giving children the right to vote on an issue, if the vote means nothing?
What would she have looked like in front of the children when she gave them the right to vote on an issue, and she vetoed their vote which was near unanimous?
She would have looked like the governments of America and Britain who scream democracy at every opportunity, but forget their screams every time a nation elects someone who they disagree with.
The children would have lost all respect for her, and the school would have failed. Just as it had did before she started at the school.

That head teacher was kicked out, and that is what I call it when someone is forced to resign, because she respected that majority of children instead of agreeing with the minority who wanted what would have been easier for her to do.

People are talking about the 1 out of 14 students who didn’t want the lamb to be slaughtered and the rights of this 1 – 14. What about the 13-14? What about the majority and their rights?
What about the damage it would have done to them if their vote was ignored after they were told to vote?
What happened when people are asked to vote, and when they do their votes are ignored?
What happened in Algeria, in Palestine?
I know the children would not take up arms, but would they have obeyed the teachers who told them to vote after the vote was ignored?
If these teachers were proven to be liars would they believe anything else the teachers says?
Would the school have failed?
That is the key issue here.
Would it have been better for the children and the school to do what the children, and the governors of the school had voted for, or ignore the vote to appease face book?
To people who don’t like animals being slaughtered, shouldn’t eat them.
If they do not eat them, it would be better for them to cry about the millions of billions of animals who are treated very badly and slaughtered, instead of this one animal who was treated well and slaughtered.
And that is the key issue for animal rights hypocrites, what would you prefer, animals being treated badly and slaughtered, or animals treated well and slaughtered.
If you would prefer animals to be treated badly before they are slaughtered, then you should attack the head. If you want animals to be treated well before slaughter, then you should call for this to be done in every school.

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#18 Tue 16 Feb 10 5:36am

dmfootycoach

Member
From Ontario, Canada
Member since Mon 11 Jan 10

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

I think you are slightly confused with attachment and respect. As I said earlier they treated it as a pet, they named it handled it. When I know the farmer across the road is calfing I help with the births if neccessary. But I don't look at it and say "hey you're a Dennis!" I watch them play and cavort about the field as they grow literally from my dinner table. Marveling at the miracle before me. All the time knowing one of them will be on my plate sooner or later and I am the one doing the deed as I help with the slaughter.
Thats the fine line between attachment and respect.
Re minority rules sorry but it the state of this twisted world today. I don't agree with it either. As I stated earlier Her idea was valid but her final execution pardon the pun was flawed paticularly in a world so out of touch as ours.

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#19 Tue 16 Feb 10 1:54pm

abdullahcohn

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Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

I know what the children did. And I think it is a good thing. treating food animals like pets and not produce is key to treating them well.

So they should be given names, and should be loved, and owners should see them as part of the family. And killing them should hurt, then, and maybe just then, people will think twice about turning their stomachs in to the graveyards of animals.
If these children are not too young to eat meat, they are not too young to see animals being killed for food. And I would have prefered it if the Lamb was killed in front of the children.
And if anyone thinks that their children should not view a loved animal killed, they should not feed their children meat.

Their was a time when every family kept animals as part of the family. This did not mean they didn't eat them, it just meant they treated them well.

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#20 Wed 17 Feb 10 10:32am

dukegus

Forum champ
Occupation Unemployed,
From Greece
Member since Fri 21 Mar 08

Re: slaughtered Lamb, head made to resign by hypocrits

abdullahcohn wrote:

People are talking about the 1 out of 14 students who didn’t want the lamb to be slaughtered and the rights of this 1 – 14. What about the 13-14? What about the majority and their rights?
What about the damage it would have done to them if their vote was ignored after they were told to vote?
What happened when people are asked to vote, and when they do their votes are ignored?

The kids were 6-11 years old? And they understood exactly what they were voting??
Were they voting to make kill the lamb for food, to kill they "friend", to approve the death of an animal? They knew what they were voting for as much as 90% of the people at a government's elections... smile
The minority rights needs to be protected abdul, the majority can protect theirs because it is the "majority"...

abdullahcohn wrote:

What happened in Algeria, in Palestine?
I know the children would not take up arms, but would they have obeyed the teachers who told them to vote after the vote was ignored?
If these teachers were proven to be liars would they believe anything else the teachers says?
Would the school have failed?
That is the key issue here.

You are being overdramatic with algeria and palestine. Totally different thing.

Maybe it would be a better lesson for the kids to learn to question everyone and not obey to anyone! Their parents, their teachers, their government...Is there a better lesson than that? But then teachers would really "teach" and not try to make everyone behave to a certain patern and make everyone think the same...

abdullahcohn wrote:

And that is the key issue for animal rights hypocrites, what would you prefer, animals being treated badly and slaughtered, or animals treated well and slaughtered.
If you would prefer animals to be treated badly before they are slaughtered, then you should attack the head. If you want animals to be treated well before slaughter, then you should call for this to be done in every school.

I totally agree with animals being treated right(and killed right, no pain etc), but that's not what happened in this school. I like children getting involved and finally respecting what they eat BUT it must be done psychologically propertly.
They should have been told from the first day what it would happen to the lambs, and through lessons and conversations to give them the knowledge about what is happening to the world and what will happen to this lamb.
There's a difference between teaching someone a proper lesson and properly teaching someone. There are "safe" psychologically ways to teach children about their food origins, they don't have to be traumatic.
So NO I wouldn't choose this teacher to teach this important subject to my kids, I'd choose someone properly trained and a bit more logical.

abdullahcohn wrote:

So they should be given names, and should be loved, and owners should see them as part of the family. And killing them should hurt, then, and maybe just then, people will think twice about turning their stomachs in to the graveyards of animals.

From the old days, that you reffered at your post,(as my parents have told me, that I have talked this subject with) they never gave names to their animals, except they were kept to produce milk and not killed.

abdullahcohn wrote:

And I would have prefered it if the Lamb was killed in front of the children.

With you mate in this one, but after many lessons, treating each kid differently and satisfying it's needs for knowledge about what will happen so it's safe.

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