Jamie Oliver

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#21 Wed 19 Sep 07 8:21am

stuvik

Member
Occupation IT - Programmer
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Tue 22 May 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Thanks Maree.

I can't imagine life without a computer. I have a beast of a PC at home and always have my laptop with me.

If you're in the market for a new laptop then I'd suggest look for one of those interest free deals, preferably one of the ones where you don't need to pay-by-the-month and get your machine that way. It eases the pain of paying up front a little and, if you're savvy with internet banking, you can setup scheduled transfers so you can forget about repayments big_smile

If you're comfortable with a Mac then Cindy's suggestion is sensible. If not then look for something with at least a Core2Duo processor and _at least_ 1GB RAM, though 2GB would be better. There's been a lot of backlash with Windows Vista but I haven't had issues with it. If want to use some old programs on it then you may want to ask for Windows XP instead-

oops OK, feeling really nerdy now. I'm off to look at your blog smile

Regards.

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#22 Wed 19 Sep 07 9:03am

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Hi, you won't find anything on the blog as I haven't posted it. When I do, it will be a copy and paste job from this thread. Will add the photos when the computer situation is sorted.

I was a Mac person from the mid 80s-1997. Love Macs. On the laptop (PC), I was running Windows Professional. If I do end up buyng another Compacq/HP laptop, will insist it has XP as have read and heard about the problems with Vista. Will buy through the computer guys (small business) that I have dealt with for 10 yrs. They will do what I ask (rather than dealing with a dept store or one of those huge stores who sell everything from furniture and electricals with computers and phones added on- you know who I mean). The places where no one knows what they are talking about, nor do they care.

No, you don't sound nerdy!

Last edited by Maree-in-Sydney (Wed 19 Sep 07 9:11am)


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#23 Thu 20 Sep 07 7:58am

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Thursday 4am: No, I didn't get up at this time for the sourdough. Have other things to do.

Will give Jamie's version of how to bake it (it's his recipe, afterall) and then describe how I do it.

Will follow with some common questions and answers re starters.

Will end with some variations for when you are confident with making the basic recipe. Otherwise known as "guilding the lily".

Baking: Jamie's version:

Preheat the oven to 190C/375F.

Flour a baking tray. *Gently* turn out the dough onto the tray.

Cut deep slashes (criss cross) into the top. I find even the tip of my sharpest knife doesn't "do it". If you have a razor blade or scalpel, use that. *It goes without saying, ***be very, very careful of your fingers and hands*** and keep kids or pets away so as not to distract you*.

Bake for an hour or until crisp. It should sound hollow when you tap it on the bottom if properly cooked.

Allow to cool. It needs to "settle". Enjoy!

****
My version of baking:

I've been baking bread for longer than I care to admit (more than 30yrs), so I've gathered/been given specialised stuff that "normal people" may not have. That's cool. Jamie's version and equipment uses stuff that most people would have at hand. If you "really" get into breadmaking and want to get hold of the specialised stuff, find me/contact me at Nora's and I'll tell you where my gear came from.

I have a pizza stone which "lives" in my oven. I know it takes around 30mins to warm up properly and I know the quirks of my oven, so I preheat the oven (with stone on middle shelf) for 30 mins at 200C.

Get on with other things.

I have a baker's peel- metal flat piece with a long wooden handle (so you minimise risk of burning yourself). Spray it with oil on one side and then dust with polenta. You could use flour.

Oven and stone are almost ready. Carefully turn out dough onto the prepared peel, use a "lame" (dough slasher- like a scalpel) to slash the dough on top. Gently slide dough off peel and onto stone. It sizzles which means the stone is hot enough. Cook as per Jamie. Remove bread from the stone with the peel. Let cool on a cake rack.


Addit: Steam can help some breads. According to Ferrigno, it helps soften the crust initially; helping it to rise more, helps it to become golden brown (and crisp).

You can spray the sides of the pre-heated oven with a water sprayer when you put the bread in (and a couple of times early in the baking. *Or*, do as I *now* do: when I'm preheating the oven, I place a cast-iron pan on the bottom shelf (below the pizza stone) and as I add the bread, I toss in 2-3 ice cubes and close the oven.

****
Questions and Answers:

1) I have my 500g of cut-off dough but don't intend to re-start another starter straight away. What do I do?

A: Store it in a clean covered container in the fridge. Within a week or so, if you haven't used it, bring to room temp and feed it by adding 1/2 cup organic bread/strong flour and 1/2 cup (or thereabouts) of filtered/still spring water. Knead it again into a ball, cover, stand overnight in a warm place. Refrigerate. Bring to room temp again when you wish to start another starter.

** if you want a stronger sour taste, store the starter in a *cool* place, but not in the refrigerator.

2)Why do you recommend organic flour and spring/filtered water?

A: Chemical additives inhibit the growth of starters. Using organic flour and spring/filtered water guarantees you won't be adding introducing these additives that would stop your starter from working.

3)How do I know if my starter has gone bad?

A: while attracting natural airborne moulds/spores into your starter, you may also attract unwanted pathogens/nasties that will spoil the mixture. Discard any starter that has an "off smell". It should smell malty/like beer. Also discard if a pinkish liquid forms on top. NB. It is quite normal for a clear-light brown liquid to form. This is called "hooch". Just stir it back into the starter.

If you have any doubts, discard the starter and start again.

*****
Variations/ Guilding the lily:

Once you have successfully made a few basic sourdough loaves, you may want to get adventurous.

Here's some suggestions. Please note that these additions to the dough should be made *after* you have saved your 500g/roughly 1/3 of the dough. They should be kneaded in at the stage where you are making your "boule"/round
*before* you leave it for the 14hrs to proove.

NB You may find it easier to knead the extras in if you first roll your dough out into a rough not too thin rough circle with a rolling pin add the extras into the middle of the circle then bring the edges together THEN start kneading into a round

1) With onions and/ or bacon:

Cook 3 trimmed bacon rashers until crisp but not dry. Crumble into dough and knead in well.

Saute about 3/4cup of red or "spring" onions with some of the green top (chopped finely) in some olive oil. Drain well. Pat dry with  paper (kitchen) towels/paper. Allow to cool to room temp and knead into dough.

NB. You will probably need to add more flour as you are kneading as the moisture from the added ingredients will make the dough sticky and we want it firm and pliable. Add the flour a couple of tablespoons at a time. Form into a round and place in your floured tea-towel lined bowl.


2)With Olives and Rosemary:

2 tabs chopped *fresh* rosemary needles
1/2 cup whole, pitted black olives

Make sure the olives are dried well using kitchen paper/paper towels.

As above recipe, knead in after you've removed your 500g of dough for your next starter. Add extra flour if necessary (slowly).Place in your lined bowl.

3) With sun-dried tomatoes and herbs

1/4 cup oil-packed, drained tomatoes, chopped
1/4 cup chopped fresh sage
1/4 cup chopped fresh basil

Pat tomatoes dry with paper towels to remove excess oil.

Knead into the dough *after* you've removed the 500g for your next starter. Be prepared to add more flour. Knead until you have a firm ball.

4) With toasted walnuts

1 cup toasted walnuts

Proceed as with above variation suggestions.


This concludes the Diary of a Sourdough. I hope that it has helped de-mystify the process of making sourdough bread. Happy baking smile

*Please*, feel free to post feedback. I'm still learning, too.

Last edited by Maree-in-Sydney (Fri 21 Sep 07 2:51pm)


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#24 Fri 21 Sep 07 3:30pm

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Forgot to say, yesterday's loaf was great. Crisp crust, mild sour taste. Some holes in the texture.

Know that the flavour will intensify and the texture will improve with subsequent batches of starter as they are using "old dough"/the "mother" (part of the previous batch- the 500g saved from each previous loaf).

Had some for lunch. No butter/marg, smeared with some light blue vein cheese and topped with a slice of tomato and a slice of double smoked ham from the deli, open face.


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#25 Fri 21 Sep 07 3:49pm

Swedish Dawn

Member
From Skåne, Sweden
Member since Mon 02 Apr 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

I've made Jamie's sourdough bread a couple of times. We grow wheat and get rye from a neighbour farmer that I grind myself. That was the start of my sourdough 2 years ago. I store sourdough in the freezer. It works!

The only thing aboiut Jamie's recipe that makes me wonder  is that if oe follows his directions, there will be less and less rye and more and more wheat flour in the dough...

I also seem to guess how long it takes to get the subsequent dough sour enough , I guess that depends on the flour but whatever it is, I don'ät know the principle.

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#26 Fri 21 Sep 07 4:14pm

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Hi Dawn, you can play around with the ratio of rye (or whatever) flour: wheat flour as much as you like to suit your own preference.
Jamie's recipe for the starter is 1:2 of rye flour to wheat flour. You can experiment after you make your initial loaf. Remember, though, that rye flour makes a more dense loaf than wheat flour. Knowing that many Scandinavian and Germanic breads are more rye than wheat (and therefore more dense than those with less rye), this maybe your preference. Experiment.

I think Jamie stressed using organic rye to take advantage of the natural wild yeasts etc in it (rather than using "ordinary" processed flour which contains additives that inhibit the growth of the "good" yeasts in the atmosphere and the growth and development of your starter which will effect your bread.

I mentioned it briefly in "The Diary", but to get the dough more sour place the starter in a *ccol* place rather than the fridge. This allows it to ferment more. The longer you leave your starter 2 but no more than 3 days before you use it (or feed it if not going to use straight away), the more sour it will become.

Not sure from your post if you store the starter or the finished loaf in the freezer. If you store the starter in such a cold place, it will definitely inhibit growth and the sourness of your bread. Make sure you let the starter come back to a warm environment before you use it.

Hope this helps smile

Last edited by Maree-in-Sydney (Sat 22 Sep 07 6:35am)


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#27 Fri 21 Sep 07 4:57pm

Swedish Dawn

Member
From Skåne, Sweden
Member since Mon 02 Apr 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Hi Maree,

our home-grown cereal is actually not organic. I'd prefer it were, that's not the point, but maybe there are less fungicides in Swedish crops than there are in warmer climates.
I store little amounts of sourdough, 100-150 grammes, in little plastic boxes in the freezer and of course I thaw them before I use them. I experiment with how much sourdough I can blend into the bread and the kids still like it, that is, how sour taste they accept.
When I make a bread with plenty of sourdough in it, like Jamie's one, I leave it in room temperature, 18-20°C to go sour. I think it took a week for a thawed 100 g piece of sourdough to sour 1 kg of flour (rye/wheat).
I'll go on experimenting with the wheat/rye ratio as we're trying to eat less wheat. Thanks Maree!

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#28 Fri 21 Sep 07 5:22pm

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Hi Dawn, just on my way to bed. Glad to be of some help. Good to bounce ideas off each other.

I really think, and this is *not* a criticism (we all have to organise our lives to suit our circumstances), that the reason it took a week for that 100g of sourdough to sour a kg of flour was because the freezing process makes dormant (or worse, kills) off the yeast.

I'd imagine, without anything to back me up, that Sweden (and other cooler climates) would have less fungi (and less need for fungicides) than warmer climates.

Out of interest, how long did it take the 500g (Jamie's recipe) to sour @ 18-20*? Do you have somewhere "in between"- cooler than that but not the fridge/freezer? It will speed up the souring process. No doubt, weather-wise, you soon will have.

Let us know how you go smile

Maree.


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#29 Fri 21 Sep 07 5:46pm

Swedish Dawn

Member
From Skåne, Sweden
Member since Mon 02 Apr 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

I'll really try to make my own diary. You think you'll just remember how long time at which temperature, and the next week you're totally lost.  smile

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#30 Fri 21 Sep 07 6:48pm

Maree

Forum super champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Diary of sourdough- from starter to a baked loaf

Dawn, I was going to suggest that but didn't want to create more "work" for you.

My son's birthday is 27 December. With Christmas, his birthday and New Year, I go crazy. It is also the finale of the busiest time for my businesses.

My son (and daughter) are adventurous eaters, but both like to have the same old, same old for their birthdays and for the Holidays, security and familiarity, I guess.

One of the first years we had Christmas here, I wrote out a menu and the ingredients needed for each dish (Librans *love* lists) and I have followed it every year. Every year, I ask what people want in the way of food. It's always the same. So I know what to order and what to cook.

That's partially why I started "The Diary". To try to de-mystify sourdough, which a lot of people put in the "too hard" basket. It can be incorporated into the time you have available.

I also tried to show that sourdough is very forgiving. I have a busy life, like most of us, family, home and two food-based businesses. Yes, I admit to being an ageing hippy, but I am busy. I get tired. Would be nice to be some sort of "Earth Mother", but I take short-cuts/easier way around things if I can. Hence me admitting to using the Magimix when needed (no pun intended).

I wrote it as it was, rather from some esoteric, "purist" bread book. Figured that what I did would be what most of us would do to get a loaf of sourdough on the table, rather what we might *like* to do.

Warm milk is "kicking in". I am rambling. Must get to bed.

Keep that diary. Good idea!


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