forum: Everything else

Subscribe to forums RSS

#21 Wed 22 May 13 11:27pm

abdullahcohn

Forum champ
Occupation Occupied
From My House
Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

koukouvagia
People can seek whatever help they like.
But the government can not use state money for things that do not work.
So unusually for me, I support the governments decision to stop funding that homoeopathic hospital.
Homoeopathic medications should have to meet the same standards and tests on whether they work or not as any other medication.
If they claim to be medication, they should be proven as any medication is proven.
And if they don't work, the people that sell them as something that does work should be prosecuted the way people who sell any fake medication that doesn't work are prosecuted.

mummza
This isn't about whether poisons Belladonna and Aconite can or can't cure meningitis.
The tablets they give do not contain a single molecule of Belladonna and Aconite. All it contains is chalk if it is in tablet form, and water if it is in liquid form.
There are no active ingredients in it at all that I can say I don't believe in or believe in.
That is why I am not phrasing it "I think homoeopathy is b0lloks", and I choose to phrase it "homoeopathy is b0lloks".  Molecules do not have souls. They don't remember what they were once mixed with. They can not decide to do anything. least of all act opposite to their nature, once they are completely removed from a solution by repeated dilution.

    Likes (0)

#22 Thu 23 May 13 2:34pm

koukouvagia

Forum champ
From New York
Member since Fri 12 Dec 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

People choose to believe what they want, it doesn't matter how you stated, you said what you think of it and that's that.  Move on.  No need to cry over it.

    Likes (0)

#23 Thu 23 May 13 5:48pm

abdullahcohn

Forum champ
Occupation Occupied
From My House
Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

Many people have died from taking homoeopathic vaccinations for malaria, and then going to Africa and catching it.

Is it OK to cry for them?

But getting back to the original petition to save the homoeopathic hospital. Isn't that a case of the homoeopaths crying about not being able to sell their false medications to the state any more?

I think once Glasgow homoeopathic hospital closes down the homoeopaths and patients there should be told:

koukouvagia wrote:

Move on.  No need to cry over it.

    Likes (0)

#24 Thu 23 May 13 11:52pm

sergio1972

Forum champ
Occupation NLP Trainer and Coach
From Portugal
Member since Tue 09 Dec 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

Ahh Abs you have intentionally or not touched a very interesting point! You said "water doesnt remember..."
Do you know that in fact, several experiences have been conducted that showed that water may indeed have a memory? Do you know that water molecules have been exposed to different types of music and have changed its initial aspect according to the music they were exposed to?

Im just saying that science keeps evolving and whats unknown today becomes common knowledge tomorrow

Also, it is true that after being diluted so many times there isnt much, or nothing left of the original active substance and therefore it shouldnt work. But thats cause you re coming from the Line of thinking of ponderal dosages.
And another thing to consider in homeopathy than dilution is dinamization (not sure the word is right). As none seems to really know its effects yet.

    Likes (0)

#25 Fri 24 May 13 2:16am

abdullahcohn

Forum champ
Occupation Occupied
From My House
Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

sergio1972
Brother,
I know these are things Homoeopaths claim.
What I am saying is they are complete and utter bullshit.

Yes we learn new things in science all the time. What was known once is disproved later. There was a time when scientists debated whether an electron was a particle or a wave. A scientist proved it was a particle, and his own son later disproved him by defracting an electron proving it is a wave.

But there is a difference between scientific theories and known facts.
The chemical properties of a substance are controlled by its chemistry. We have reached a stage where we can see the chemistry.
This is no longer theory, and it has become visible fact.

Whatever they say to sell their bottles of water, or chalk tablets. The water they sell is no different to what you get from the tap, and the chalk they sell is no different to what you kids draw with.

One of my teachers was responsible for designing a nuclear power station we have in this country. I'm not going to name him or the nuclear power station, because he said he took it off his CV because he didn't want his grand children to ever find out he did something like that.
So you can say there was a time when we thought nuclear power was good, and now we know it is bad. But what you can't say is the fission of uranium doesn't produce heat and radiation and it is possible that science will one day find out it doesn't.
This is because nuclear fission is something that is done now. And we can see what happens when it is done. It isn't theory it is fact.

Chemistry is something that we can see. It is a known. It is something that is tangible. What controls how chemicals behave is their outer most electron shell. There is no magic or mystery behind it. To someone who knows about organic chemistry like myself. Belief in homoeopathy sounds like telling someone that builds televisions that there are a bunch of little actors inside each and every television set acting things out. And one day science will find out that is the case.
Well I don't even think you need to know about organic chemistry to know this. I think we all know it already. Sea water with the salt removed is fresh water. Sewage with the **** removed is the drinking water that comes from our taps. The water we drink doesn't remember the urine that was once in it. And the water in homoeopathy medications doesn't remember the poisons that were once in it, and hasn't got the ability to do the opposite.

Yes, some forms of alternative therapy that science hasn't yet proven might one day be proven.
But Homoeopathy isn't one of them.
Science will never prove it works. It will never prove water has memory. Because Water doesn't have memory. There is nothing in water to remember. And this memory isn't down loaded in to a lump of chalk.
Water is water, chalk is chalk. Homoeopathy has existed for about 200 years. If homoeopaths actually believed in what they sold, I think that would be more than enough time for them to organised double blind tests of the sort real medical treatments have to go through before they can be proscribed.
I don't think doctors or the state should bother themselves with such a test. Just as I don't need to destroy my TV to know it isn't filled with tiny actors.
The ball is in the homoeopaths court. They will never do a scientific double blind test, because they know it will prove it has no effect.
Just as no homoeopath is willing to inject themselves with malaria to see if their malaria medication works.
If what they sell works, why wouldn't they?

    Likes (0)

#26 Fri 24 May 13 10:37am

sergio1972

Forum champ
Occupation NLP Trainer and Coach
From Portugal
Member since Tue 09 Dec 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

A man of science may want to think twice before using the word never smile as they say "never say never...

    Likes (0)

#27 Fri 24 May 13 1:35pm

koukouvagia

Forum champ
From New York
Member since Fri 12 Dec 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

Fine.  But can you cook anything?  I don't see you participating in any food discussions, you only bring up political c***. 

I've benefited greatly from homeopathic treatments.

    Likes (0)

#28 Fri 24 May 13 3:01pm

sergio1972

Forum champ
Occupation NLP Trainer and Coach
From Portugal
Member since Tue 09 Dec 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

Dont get me wrong but I dont think thats fair Koukouvagia. The subject has been posted in Leftovers and people have agreed in the past to talk about other subjects other than food so I dont see the problem.
Its not like theres a pre requisite to know how to cook to join this fórum. Ar least I ve never been tested for that.
Which is a pitty by the way cause I think I would like it wink

    Likes (0)

#29 Fri 24 May 13 5:47pm

MsPablo

Forum super champ
Occupation Just being me
Member since Fri 28 Mar 08

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

koukouvagia wrote:

Fine.  But can you cook anything?  I don't see you participating in any food discussions, you only bring up political c***. 

I've benefited greatly from homeopathic treatments.

I agree with Sergio that posting on non-food topics in Leftovers is supposed to be fine.  Abdullahcohn has made many interesting food posts.  If you don't believe me, have a look through his past posts which you can do by going to his profile.

    Likes (0)

#30 Fri 24 May 13 6:07pm

abdullahcohn

Forum champ
Occupation Occupied
From My House
Member since Fri 11 Nov 05

Re: Homeopathy is B0ll0ks!

koukouvagia
OK, lets move this to homoeopathy and if it works what will it mean to the world of cookery, flavours, and nutrition.

If water has memory, and can remember what was once inside it.
Can we use it as a replacement to salt and sugar?
If water can remember things it came in contact with to cure us, why can't it remember flavours?
Why not textures and nutrition too?
Imagine it. You go to a restaurant.
You are handed a big white plate with a puddle of clear water in it.
You are told it is Beef fillet, with fried onions and boiled quail eggs, all in a goat cheese sauce.
Well it isn't. But it is the homoeopathic version of Beef fillet with onions and boiled quail eggs, all in a goats cheese sauce.
Because the opposite of beef, onion, quail egg and cheese sauce were placed in some water, diluted until there was nothing left of it in the water, and then diluted further. Because all good homoeopaths know, the more you dilute something, the more potent it will be!
That plate of water would have amazing flavours, textures and be incredibly filling and nutritious.
Just make sure you don't over dilute it, because if calories increase in the same way medical effectiveness does by dilution. You can become morbidly obese by eating that puddle of water on that plate.

We can solve world hunger!

koukouvagia
It isn't homoeopathy that has benefited you. You have got ill, and you have got better. Why?
Because people do get better after they get ill.
That is why people get better when they go to wizards and witches that caste spells on them. That is why people get better when so called holy men pray over them. That is why people get better when they go to so called holy places of healing. That is why people get better when they have done none of the above, Most illness are temporary. The illness ended because it was due to end.
And if homoeopaths only dealt with such things that end on their own. I would agree it is none of my business what others waste their money on.
But this isn't the case. They claim to be able to treat deadly conditions such as malaria and meningitis. And that can not be allowed to continue. People die or are left with serious disabilities because they choose homoeopathy instead of what works.
Yes you in NY can continue to spend your own money on that if you like.
But why should I in the UK tolerate tax money being used for it here?
And that is what this thread is about. The government has taken a step in the right direction by closing down Glasgow Homoeopathic Hospital. And it is the homoeopaths that got upset about it. Made a petition. Signed it themselves, and someone has signed it for me too.

koukouvagia
You can use it for feeling better, if you want. It wont help but it is your right. But just don't use it for life threatening conditions such as meningitis and malaria.

    Likes (0)

Powered by PunBB.