Jamie Oliver

forum: Chicken

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#21 Tue 08 Jan 08 11:59pm

Poet

Member
Member since Mon 07 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Dr Friol wrote:

Of course there is an emotional argument regarding the conditions in which these birds are kept, but they're chickens for heaven's sake; they still work with their heads chopped off!

I'm not sure what kind of doctor you are or why you felt the need to use the title 'Dr' in your screen name.  You might not even be one for all I know!?

If you are a medical doctor then your lack of empathy doesn't suprise me, you couldn't do the job you do if you didn't have that ability to detach your emotions from a distressing situation.

I am the total opposite, I have my own chickens and know all their personalities and foibles.  Love watching their antics.  They are intelligent animals and make superb pets.

They don't deserve to suffer the miserable existence that they do in intensive broiler facilities.

The empathic amongst us can recognise that.

********************************************************

A man is truly ethical only when he obeys the compulsion to help all life which he is able to assist, and shrinks from injuring anything that lives.

Compassion, in which all ethics must take root, can only attain its full breadth and depth if it embraces all living creatures and does not limit itself to mankind.

Until he extends his circle of compassion to include all living things, man will not himself find peace.

Albert Schweitzer

Last edited by Poet (Wed 09 Jan 08 12:01am)

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#22 Wed 09 Jan 08 11:34am

nicolesa

Member
Member since Tue 08 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

I did not decide to become a vegan for fun or simply because of my unselfish compassion for animals.  I have done extensive research on the issue.  Before I turned vegan I completed a health and nutrition diploma course which is where I learnt everything I have said.  I have read various books which can back up my arguments and I also complete ongoing nutritional training in my part time job which reveals more and more evidence that a vegan diet is the healthiest diet on the planet.  My boyfriend has also completed a degree in sports nutrition at Surrey University and his knowledge is consistent with mine.  I am completing a law degree on top of that where I am learning how much rubbish the government feed the public about the meat industry, especially children, and about the transportation of live animals and that 'regulations' mean nothing.

Maybe some of you need to read some modern books supported by scientific fact and not literature that was written in the 1950's or by various bodies that will feed you such rubbish because it is in their interests to do so.  The government once produced a report stating that being overweight increases longeivity...and you believe them when they also tell you meat is an essential part of your diet?  How abour reading Dr Neal Barnards's findings on www.nealbarnard.org, or Dr Michael Greger's on www.drgreger.org or visiting www.vegforlife.org or www.drmcdougall.com or www.veganhealth.org or visiting the Physicians Commitee for Responsible Medicine at www.pcrm.org.  Or how about reading Slaughterhouse: The Shocking Story of Greed, Neglect and Inhumane Treatment or Meat Market: Animals, Ethics and Money or An Unnatural Order: Why we are destroying the PLanet and Each Other or Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust or Fast Food Nation...or as you seem to prefer the nutrition side of things how about Food for Life: How the New Four Food Groups Can Save Your Life or Eat Right, Live Longer, or the Food Revolution or The Vegan Diet as Chronic Disease Prevention...

If you only open your eyes to one let it be The China Study: The Most Comprehensive Study of Nutrition Ever Conducted and the Startling Implications for Diet, Weight-loss and Long Term Health by Dr T C Campbell...which surprise surprise supports eating a vegan diet.

Also using some common sense can bring some light on the situation.  People eating a chinese diet have the lowest cases of all types of heart diseases and cancers.  Breast cancer is so uncommon in China a lot of people who have lived there all their lives don't even understand exactly what it is or what happens to someone who has it.  In the UK and the USA 1 in 3 people get cancer - proven direct links with meat and dairy.  The chinese diet is plant based with high amounts of soya protein. 

Soya protein is one of the very few sources in the world which contains all the amino acids needed.  Flaxseeds or linseeds also have twice the amount of omegas than fish oil does...I could go on but what I'm trying to say is that human beings do not need meat and dairy in their diet and treating animals like they are treated with intensive farming methods is completely unneccessary and demonstrates what a disgusting being humans have turned into.

I understand your argument about poorer families only being able to afford intensively farmed animals but once again this is not neccessary!  A vegan diet is much cheaper!   My grocery shopping is at least £20 cheaper than my other 5 housemates' who buy meat and dairy. 

The comment that 'they're only chickens' simply shows what an uncaring person you are and I can only feel sorry for those around you...

"Auschwitz begins wherever someone looks at a slaughterhouse and thinks: they're only animals".  Theodor Adorno

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#23 Wed 09 Jan 08 1:00pm

chixgbsdg

Member
Member since Mon 07 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Nicolesa - Everyone is entitled to live the lifestyle they want and to what they can afford. What is wrong is to try and insist that others have to do the same. 

Vegetarians and Vegans tend to knock 'normal' people to promote their cause, just the same as organic chicken growers market their birds by saying that intensive chickens are cruel and not as welfare friendly.

Jamie and Hugh FW are doing it with their CH4 programs this week. They say "We want everyone to eat free range". Ok they can express their opinion by extolling the virtues of free range, but if they can only manage to succed by trying to destroy another sector of the industry, then I think they are loosing the argument.

Despite continual scares that everything you are going to eat will kill you, people are living longer. How much longer will you live by being a Vegan?

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#24 Wed 09 Jan 08 1:49pm

cookinlovebird

Forum champ
Occupation working
From West Midlands United Kingdom
Member since Wed 05 Dec 07

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

I would just like to say that in my mind I am glad this program was done to show people what life is like for 'food' animals in any catagory you want free range or battery. I choose to buy organic free range or free range, that is my choice, but some can afford the prices and some can not, so I think in my own opion that to change one food item, to what we believe is right, in all means such as the welfare, wellbeing, conditions ( that we have in our minds is suitable ) which we choose for lots of reasons is to have an end product that is good in taste and makes us happier as the consumer which I think is a good thing and to use that product as an important meal ie Sunday Lunch, special meals or even as a treat is a start.

cookinlovebird

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#25 Wed 09 Jan 08 2:36pm

nicolesa

Member
Member since Tue 08 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Can I just make it perfectly clear that I am not trying to change everybody or say that I am superior to everyone that eats meat and dairy.  I am merely trying to educate people.  It is incredibly frustrating when people try to argue this issue with me when they quite clearly have not done any research on the matter and are only using arguments that they have been led to believe since childhood.  I don't agree with any form of religion but I cannot pretend to know everything about every religion and therefore will not use tenuous statements to argue my views to a christian, muslim, budhist etc.  These types of TV programmes proves my point perfectly; (as in last night's Hugh's Chicken Run) people will argue that eating meat is right till their blue in the face, take them to a slaughterhouse and they come out in tears and vow never to touch the stuff again.

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#26 Wed 09 Jan 08 3:43pm

monique237

Member
Member since Wed 09 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Perhaps a vegetarian/vegan will find this hard to comprehend but I am a meat eater and a massive animal lover. I have pets who I would risk my own life for, I can't watch animal rescue programmes because they make me cry and my ultimate dream is to save the panda bears. I used to be a vegetarian for many years but unfortunately (drunken) temptation got the better of me. I would love to go veggie again because it breaks my heart to watch programmes like Hugh's Chicken Run but unfortunately, like many people, I think it would be too hard to give up. 

There is no way that all the vegetarians and vegans in the world will ever be able to get everyone to go meat free. Some people like it too much, some find it too hard to give up and some simply just don't care about the welfare of animals enough to stop eating them. I think people are missing the point with programmes like Hugh's and that's why animals continue to get treated in the disgusting way they do. He's not trying to turn the world vegetarian he is simply trying to make people aware of the way chickens are treated so something can be done about it. So while the veggies and the meat eaters of the world continue to fight amongst themselves over who is right and who is wrong, these poor chickens continue to be subjected to this treatment. Something that everyone in this discussion has in common is the fact that we all think the way chickens are treated is disgusting and it needs to stop. So why don't we all stop fighting each other because let's face it one more or one less person eating meat isn't going to make a difference. Why don't we all target the supermarkets and farmers who are contributing to this treatment and force them to stop because that really will make a difference.

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#27 Wed 09 Jan 08 7:37pm

mummza

Forum super champ
Occupation avoiding housework
From The land of song.
Member since Tue 04 Oct 05

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

chixgbsdg, not all vegetarians will push their opinions upon others  wink , what you might not realise is that I am a vegetarian , I have been for many years .
I am a vegetarian as I do not like the taste or texture of meat.

My husband is not a vegetarian and I have always allowed my family to make their own choices regards wether or not they eat meat.
They all realy enjoy eating meat and so I have always cooked it for them .
No problems !
I am infact a good cook of meat dispite the fact I never taste what I cook.
I have learned to season the meat from the smell of it alone ,although I do request a 'gravey taster' but in truth thats more to allert the family that the meal is amost ready  wink  and also they all think that its a favoured position to be in !!

I hope that I never push vegetarian ways upon anyone as everyone should be able to make up their own minds upon the subject.

Having a vegetarian in the family (me!) means that we eat loads of vegetables alongside the rest of my family eating meat. During Lent , some of my daughters always give up eating meat (and chocolate!) so we have vegetarian meals for the whole family.

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#28 Wed 09 Jan 08 7:51pm

chixgbsdg

Member
Member since Mon 07 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Mummza - Good for you, I'm impressed that you still cook meat for your family.

Don't you just fancy a bacon sandwich though!?!

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#29 Wed 09 Jan 08 8:34pm

mummza

Forum super champ
Occupation avoiding housework
From The land of song.
Member since Tue 04 Oct 05

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

No, I never fancy a bacon sandwich , although I do not dislike the smell of it cooking as much as some other things  big_smile

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#30 Wed 09 Jan 08 9:54pm

nicolesa

Member
Member since Tue 08 Jan 08

Re: Jamie's Fowl Dinners

Mummza of course you wouldn't inflict your vegetarian ways on others because you're not a vegetarian because you care, you're a vegetarian because you simply don't like meat.  Meat eaters always inflict their views on vegetarians and vegans and we are entitled to state our opinions too.  Vegetarians, and vegans especially, really are treated like weirdos in this country.  People often ask me if I would feed my children meat (I don't want children anyway) and I always say no and they always tell me that's unfair inflicting my views like that.  Well I think it's unfair I was forced to eat meat as a child.  People can bring up their children how they like.  And nobody would criticise an atheist for not buying their Christian friend the crusifix necklace they wanted, nobody would tell a man who is against plastic surgery that he is wrong for not paying for his wife's boob job...anyway I'm sure you can see where I'm going so please don't ever say that to a veggie when you ask the question.

Anyways I'm off to watch the final Hugh's Chicken Run and I hope you all are too! lol

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