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#11 Sat 06 Dec 08 11:13pm

JennyR

Member
From Whitby, North Yorkshire
Member since Thu 29 Jul 04

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Maree wrote:

JennyR, now I know which of my two suggested books you bought -the generally reliable Carol Field.An oldie but usually a goodie.

usually a goodie? anything in it you'd strongly advise against trying?

Everything so far has been wonderful but I'm seriously nervous of the wetness of the puglia dough I made earlier and have stuck in the fridge to retard in bulk for the first rise in the hope that will make it a tad easier to handle in the morning!

I've just recieved shipment of a 25kg sack of 00 perfect for bread so I am very happy
big_smile

Last edited by JennyR (Sat 06 Dec 08 11:13pm)

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#12 Sun 07 Dec 08 2:16am

Maree

Forum champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Hi Jenny,

I bought this book in 1986. It was published in 1985.at that stage I'd been baking bread for 11-12 years. Depends if you want to class my first efforts as "bread" or as "door stops" smile

It sits, with a select group of books that have made it from the over-flowing bookshelves, cookbook piles on the floor to my tiny and completely un-workable kitchen. So, it must have merit. Otherwise, I wouldn't have suggested it to you along with the Ed Woods' book.

I wrote an A****n review some time ago.Overall, the book scored an amazing 4.5/5 rating. The reviews were "gushing" to say the least.

I gave it less. The reasons?:

It is a product of its time. A good, very good product but it needs to be brought in line with current health and food preferences.A revised edition is long over-due.As one reviewer wrote, "[There are] frequently used gobs of cheese, peppers, onions, oils, eggs, herbs, condiments and commercial packaged yeasts."

Little space is given to "long fermentation processes...""... packaged yeast is their [her] prevailing leavening agent". "...condiments [are used] to compensate for the bread's lack of integrity".

"The Italian Baker reflects many of our former preferences with newly added concessions for the busy homemaker who will enjoy Field's food processor directions to further speed up the bread-making process, and at the same time diminish the quality of the end product. Today, when I read a recipe such as one in The Italian Baker that calls for nutmeg and two packages of frozen spinach, sugar, olive oil and packaged yeast, I cringe.

Alternatively, as with a rye bread recipe in The Italian Baker that calls for 7 ounces of pancetta cubes, a quarter-cup olive oil, commercial yeast and is out of the oven within 3 hours. It is difficult to ponder which is more objectionable today. the pancetta hunks and olive oil in a direct method rye bread, or substituting bacon chunks for unavailable pancetta. To make consistently good bread, one must accurately scale all ingredients and maintain ideal dough temperature at every step of the process".

A lot of the criticism for the book came from its combined  Imperial volume measurements for all liquids, and then to offer both Imperial volume measurements AND metric weight for (some) dry ingredients.

"Other dry ingredients retain Imperial volume measurements. The result is an inconsistency between weight/volume and metric/Imperial measurements that may cause needless confusion for cooks who depend on weight measurements for accuracy".

In all honesty, I can't agree with all of the reviewers' diatribe. If a food processor (or bread machine for kneading only) can help me get great bread on the table, I'm all for it.

We all, who bake, know that the "scoop and scrape" way of measuring is widely open to environmental and operator error. Weighing ingredients is by far more accurate.

Those who have cooked with me, and there are *very few* who I allow into the kitchen with me, know that I cook "rustique". In other words, I can't be bothered making a very fine dice when a fine-ish dice will do. Life's too short to "turn" a carrot etc, in my opinion.

But when baking, which is 85% of my business' work, one has to be precise. In saying that, flour:water ratios vary according to age of flour, ambient temperature, humidity etc etc.

Jenny et al, sorry for the ramble.

Jenny, have Pane Pugliese (pp. 122-124 from Field's book) in front of me. Haven't made it, I confess. But looking at flour:water ratios and the Biga (starter) it is very much like the delightful nightmare that is Ciabatta- runny, oozy, almost molten bread dough trying to escape.

Sorry, but putting it in the fridge overnight might give you "space" but you're going to have to let it come to room temp+ (depends what the room temp/humidity is- you're in Yorkshire from memory. Geoff doesn't paint a warm environment, so pick your "possie"/position), and you haven't done the first rise, yet.

Suggestion: know that Pugliese is meant to be "big wheels". But since the dough, like ciabatta, is a nightmare to control (well, it is in Sydney's humidity), and the first instinct is to add more flour -try not to add too much-can I suggest that you do the shaping, second rise and part of the baking (until no longer oozy) in either a springform pan/ round oven proof pan, round casserole dish etc?

The recipe makes 2 large round/3 smaller rounds.

If you have a pizza stone suggest you heat it up for 30 mins when pre-heating the oven.

When the loaves are past the oozy stage (semi-set) release them onto the pizza stone(s) to finish.

No pizza stone? Loaves, according to the recipe are meant to take 50-60mins to bake. After 25-30mins (or past the set, not ooze stage) release them onto the oven rack(s). You may need to rotate them if your oven is anything like mine for equal baking.

Hope this *very* long winded response has helped a bit.

Happy baking.

Last edited by Maree (Sun 07 Dec 08 2:36am)


"Cook with love and laughter ..."
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#13 Sun 07 Dec 08 3:14am

Maree

Forum champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Geoff, this is getting weird.

We both posted within four minutes of the other and we both said the same thing.

I was typing a response on the BB (one screen only), had no idea you'd posted what you'd posted at the (almost) same time.

This isn't the first time this has happened.

You still have "connections" What's going on?

M.


"Cook with love and laughter ..."
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#14 Sun 07 Dec 08 8:08am

JennyR

Member
From Whitby, North Yorkshire
Member since Thu 29 Jul 04

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Maree wrote:

Jenny, have Pane Pugliese (pp. 122-124 from Field's book) in front of me. Haven't made it, I confess. But looking at flour:water ratios and the Biga (starter) it is very much like the delightful nightmare that is Ciabatta- runny, oozy, almost molten bread dough trying to escape.

Sorry, but putting it in the fridge overnight might give you "space" but you're going to have to let it come to room temp+ (depends what the room temp/humidity is- you're in Yorkshire from memory. Geoff doesn't paint a warm environment, so pick your "possie"/position), and you haven't done the first rise, yet.

I've only dabbled around the rustic breads in first chapter so far. I do find the fact she only uses cups for liquids a tad frustrating but getting easier now the more I use it do do the conversions in my head!  If the dry weight had been cups I'd have sent the book back I think, I just can't cope with them at all!   The fridge worked perfectly, the dough is so wet and lively that it had tripled in size by the time I got up this morning! I've shaped it and popped in it my sourdough baskets and popped back in fridge to attend to later, the kitchen gets very warm on sunday, don't worry  lol

Pizza stones? I had 2 but 'accidentaly' cracked one this week, such a shame, I now have a ' bread stone' winging it's way over from Germany  whistle

http://www.3-2-1-pizza.eu/index.html?ta … lang=en-gb

Last edited by JennyR (Sun 07 Dec 08 8:14am)

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#15 Sun 07 Dec 08 8:49am

GeoffP

Forum champ
Occupation Retired Clergy & Computer Consultant
From Bradford, West Yorks
Member since Mon 03 Jul 06

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Maree - you know what they say about "Great Minds" smile

You are right, though, there does seem to be a connection as we've often posted almost simultaneously about the same subject saying the same thing - and as we are half the world apart no-one could say we are colluding!

Someday, we'll get together for the Maree & Geoff Cook in smile

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#16 Sun 07 Dec 08 11:44am

Maree

Forum champ
From Newcastle, Australia
Member since Sat 10 Mar 07

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Jenny, hope the bread turns out well.

Let us know how it goes, please smile

Geoff, "The Maree and Geoff Cook In" sounds like fun. UK or Oz?

Be aware, though, am used to cooking alone in a tiny kitchen so can get kind of "territorial" smile


"Cook with love and laughter ..."
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#17 Sun 07 Dec 08 11:58am

GeoffP

Forum champ
Occupation Retired Clergy & Computer Consultant
From Bradford, West Yorks
Member since Mon 03 Jul 06

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

Tiny kitchens are difficult - even just two cooks are too many.

My kitchen is better - but a bit chill for you at this time of year.

So - what say you we find somewhere mutually convenient - with a big well equipped kitchen - somewhere warm, but not too hot?

Could make the "Maree & Geoff Cook-In" an annual event - should we invite anyone else, though - don't want too many cooks to spoil the broth smile

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#18 Sun 07 Dec 08 12:19pm

mrpab

Forum champ
Member since Wed 23 Jul 08

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

you guys should definitely be the chefs du jour - but coudn't we at least video tape the event? It could become a new JO spinoff show! We'll have to think about titles... i think the chemistry between the two of you would make a great show - especially if there were fights!

hmm ... "Beauty and the Beast"

"The Reverend and the Philosopher on the Road" - this would be filmed on location as the two of you drive across Europe in a vintage camper-van fitted out with a great portable kitchen.

"Let's Get Cookin' with Geoff and Maree!" - morning TV. (actually i'm liking this idea the best lol )

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#19 Sun 07 Dec 08 12:22pm

shammrok

Forum super champ
Occupation Growing things
From Up the garden path...Tasmania
Member since Thu 02 Sep 04

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

"Pastor and the Master" maybe lol

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#20 Sun 07 Dec 08 12:29pm

mrpab

Forum champ
Member since Wed 23 Jul 08

Re: Tipo 00 equivalent?

"Ozzie and the Rev"

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